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INTERVIEW FOR MASTER WILSON


 

PART TWO:

Teaching Methodology and Philosophy

INTERVIEW PART 1 IS BELOW THIS CURRENT INTERVIEW

Master Wilson, this is the second of your three part interview.  The questions today will deal with your opinions of teaching methods and your general training philosophy.

1.      With the three main disciplines you teach; Isshin-Ryu, Jujitsu, and Military Arnis, do you emphasize one over the other?

           As in the previous interview, I noted that each one – Isshin-Ryu, Jujitsu and Arnis can stand on its own.  When you know the system of Isshin-Ryu and any other martial art system, it is easy to interweave one with the other.  Each system has weaknesses and strengths.  What I have recognized in training and working these three systems with the Karate 5 is that one does not have an advantage over the other.  When we find a weakness in one, we have found a correlation in the strength of another. 

           Most martial artist pick out the strength of the system and that strength is what the person is about.  When the person’s ability is power and quickness, then their strength is quickness and power.  Some of the weakness comes from not exploiting the weakness in the system.  This causes us to train at a level to bring out that training and meaning.  I have noticed in our training that the system is not weak; it has evolved by using certain teachings in a different type of worldly techniques. 

           Each system can stand on its own if you really know the art.  I favor Isshinryu because it already has multi systems in it.  The hard – Shorin Ryu, and the soft – Goju Ryu.  It also has numerous Masters that taught Master Shimabuku.  From these systems we teach what we like or can do the best.  If we continue to search and reach out for what the system has to offer and go beyond our ability, the student should go on to be a better martial artist.

2.      Under street conditions, which do you think would be the most useful?

           This is with a smile on my face as I think about what I should say.  I know that you might be looking for a way to glorify one over the other, but since we have spent our whole career and embrace the weak and strong of the arts in the way of the Karate 5, I would not know if I would be using the Isshinryu punch and kick, or the Arnis block or strike, or the ability to reach and disable the opponent.  I was once asked what was or to show, my best technique.  My answer was that my best technique is the best opportunity that was given me.

           The concept of trying to be a complete martial artist from the stand point of Karate 5 has allowed us to have an open mind and reach our objective in being a complete martial artist.  It would include knowing how to call 911; how to say I’m sorry; forgive me; to actually standing up to block and strike.  We always believe at Karate 5 Dojo in the condition of the mind, spirit and body. The conditioning of these gives the student an advantage in his training. 

           I know that some prefer one of the arts over the other from their personal standpoint.  They might pick one that favors them.  Karate 5 has trained and interwoven these for so long that opportunity is what you are looking for.  To be truthful my system should be named “opportunity.”

3.      How do you feel kata helps fighting and do you teach bunkai from the kata?

           Let me start by saying that in Karate 5 we have 5 levels of discipline with kata.

1.      You learn the moves and sequence of the kata

2.      You perfect the moves and sequence of the kata

3.      You take the moves and sequence and identify the bunkai

4.      You take the bunkai and apply it in a self-defense move that finishes a person which means anything from tying him up, throwing him, knocking him down or getting him to submit.  The initial part starts with the bunkai for that move.  Karate 5 incorporates this with any move from Jujitsu or Arnis to finish.

5.      The level that is most difficult to master.  At this level you use an original move from the kata and bunkai; then you go through the series of control or incapacitate the opponent.  The secret of the 5^th level is that you have to know the opponent is coming at you and you are creating your moves at the same time so when you finish your assailant, you return to the next move in the kata without getting out of sequence, step or position, and perform at such a level that it seems that you never left the kata.  To show this level of expertise in bunkai and kata, you must know the original moves.  Teaching alternate moves enhances the art.  To teach only bunkai and stay at that level would be like taking a baby and putting a diaper on him and leaving them there until he is grown up.  In this state, you can create and grow; it’s like taking a person from diapers and fully dressing him in full attire; from a suit, to shoes, to a scarf, to a cane, an umbrella, etc.

  In other words, many argue about the basics of a kata move and keep it at the level where there is no growth; no explanation beyond basic moves and leaves us to believe that kata has no validity beyond just being a bunch of moves.  But when applied to instances that cause you to move from being in a diaper to full armor, kata is the element of your art.

4.            During the week how much time do you spend teaching each discipline and to which segment of your students?

  Most of our students get equal amounts of the different segments of our system because of the nature of each area of Karate 5’s teaching method.   When you teach a punch or block from the system, the emphasis turns that into a circle or windmill, both from Jujitsu or Arnis.  We can emphasize pins from one or another of the disciplines.  Other times we would do the self defense and we can complete moves that incapacitate; or introduce strikes, blocks and counters that move all the way to a sweep that teaches the student how to throw or fall.  In doing this type of training, we carry over any sequence of training in one session that unifies all of our system and helps the training time in our dojo.  Our training is not completely separated until it comes to using some of the applications in separate arenas.

           The sports segment carries a lot of weight and to apply some of it teaches the appropriate manner from the self defense.  There is only a certain amount of teaching in the sports area that can be used when training in that type of segment.  So you asked how much time we spent.  Ours is like a rolling ball.  We start out rolling in Isshin-Ryu, then it rolls into Jujitsu, then it rolls into Arnis; then it rolls into the final stage of Karate 5, a rolling ball of success.  Once Karate 5 learns a new system, it is now a complete ball of success rolling on.

5.      Have you changed your teaching methods through the years and if so, how?

           Yes, yes, and Yes!!  In the early years martial arts was new and most people did not understand it.  This came as an advantage and disadvantage.  Our method of training was very disciplined and we had to prove the position that we had taken in the community.  This was a very effective way and should be part of our society.  We were scrutinized, looked upon; we were judged because of this being more of an Asian art in American society.  We at Karate 5 felt that we had a strenuous leadership that meets physical and spirit.  As the years have passed, the martial arts have become a household word and the dojo and money have become the motivating factor in some schools.   Some have had to change to keep doors open.  What the Karate 5 has done to keep motivated is by discipline of the spirit, and training for leadership, sports, fitness and tournaments.  We still have a lot of emphasis on dojo fighting but have to back down because of rules in tournaments.  The old way we use to fight was bare knuckle and bare foot.  Now we find ourselves with sports equipment, less control, less target areas and less teaching.

           So if you asked if we have changed, yes.  It is not that we wanted to; it is the pressure to be successful, to be needed, and have a place in society, and the opportunity to exist and not be labeled as a militant group.  We have had to change some of our approaches to training without selling out the Karate 5.  The evolution of what stands for your school centers around the type of student you attract.  The caliber of students today is not, as a whole, the same caliber of student as yesterday.  Today’s student has taken on the concept like fast food in America and can end up like the fast food of America; not being able to perform because of their attitude of wanting it quick, now, and yesterday.

6.      You have a reputation as a tough but thorough teacher.  Also you have some very tough students.  Do you teach tough on purpose or is it just your nature?

           That’s a tough question and it deserves a tough answer but would I be doing it on purpose or would it be my nature?  No.  Let’s look at martial arts for what it was created for, the building of and balance of mind, spirit, and body.  If you do not employ toughness, you have a disadvantage to start out with.  That is the only way I have seen in our training to make people aware of the choice they have.  Standing tall, and the attitude that comes from that, is a tough man approach.  Some of mine comes from me being a black man knowing that sometimes I had only one opportunity to get it right.  Not much room for errors. 

7.      What is your number one goal for your students?

           My number one goal for our students is to be complete martial artists.  We have as head of our life Jesus Christ. We do not in any way force this on any of our students or leaders.  In Karate 5, we ourselves are trying to show by example what Jesus Christ has done for us and is continuing to do for us, and how he helps us through trials and tribulations. 

           The mental aspect of our students plays a good part of preparing our students to be able to think; to be able to put their surroundings and expectations together.  We want our students to be thinkers, analytical; to be able to stand up and brainstorm.  This gives a strong indication that you are building a leading mind instead of a following mind.  The physicality to compensate for certain handicaps or to control, one can get in the martial arts. 

           I know that in thinking of an answer to the question of the number one goal is that to be the best martial artist they can be but in doing that through those three elements help you see that the Karate 5 is looking for more than one segment at a time.

8.            How much do you train on tournament point fighting and how important is it to your dojo?

  First of all, all of our training is very important.  We try to implement all of our training to different segments of what is required in our daily work out.  We have found that incorporating a certain amount of training at all times leaves us with less training to prepare for a special event.  The Karate 5’s reputation of being good competitors, along with some of our sister/brother schools, that if we were to enter the ring with one leg and get beat, we could not make any excuses that we had only one leg.  No one would care.  If you get beat, you get beat, and we are trying to implement that if you step in the ring, you are to be prepared to do the best you can do.  Some of us are taking into account work loads and jobs.  No one cares how much time he puts in training for getting home at night.  Karate 5 continues to train as much as time will allow on a continual basis on tournament fighting.

           I love dojo continuous fighting.  It brings you as close to reality as you can without hurting someone.  Point fighting sharpens skills, promotes fellowship and getting along type of environment.  A skill that can be used in point fighting.  That same skill can be used in getting home at night.  If you can kick properly it can be used at every segment of training, as well as punching.  It’s the standard of point fighting in the sports arena that I find to be detrimental to Karate 5.  The students had so many trophies that wives were breaking them to get them out of the room.  Students quit training because they had won so many trophies they thought they were good enough and trophies became their god.  This alone has made point fighting the least of my training.

9.      What is the worst thing a student can do to you as a Sensei?

           One of the worse things would be disrespect.  A student that is disrespectful has an underlying motive.  There is something wrong.  He should see how you can learn from someone or teach someone.  Giving this much knowledge and power in the martial arts to an individual without respect is like giving a child a loaded gun.  The disrespect carries over into other areas of training and contaminates the core of what martial arts stands for; discipline, respect, fellowship, sharing of knowledge and forgiving ones shortcomings, not judging others.  Those who had disrespect and turn it into respect for all other training segments of the dojo is a trickle down from sensei to instructor.

10.    If you were a member of an association, what would you want that association to do to be of benefit to you and your dojo? 

           First, to be part of an association, I think the association should be able to offer continual growth, leadership, development of the art and fellowship of one another.  The association should be one of the strengths behind the system than can enhance students beyond the dojo.  When the organization only offers dues and a title, that is making our system seem like they have been sold short.  The association should provide such a benefit that the student is willing to pay dues because he knows he is going to receive more than a membership card.  There should be training that enhances those able to grow and reflect on the association and help in continued development; their opportunity to train with other martial artists.  An organization that fails to give members motivation is a failure to the system and a failure to themselves.

11.    If you were head of an association other than the Karate Five, what would you insist on from the other board members?

           Each person has a certain amount of gifts that they bring.  I expect each board member to bring that type of ability to the table.  Without it they would be used as pawns for someone to tell them what to do.  Board members in any organization are a mixture of brains.  They all have to meet the needs of the board and interact with each other.  Each member should be willing to brainstorm as well as put into action the decisions of the Board.  Each board should not center around one individual.  Each board member should have a voice that would be just as strong as the chair, president or vice president.  The board should insist that each member contribute and have input in every aspect of the organization.  I think that the support of members is vital to the survival of the organization.  Once the board has agreed on a decision or issue, all members should support it and not try to tear it down.

           I think that when one or two members try to run things, it becomes like a dictatorship and has a tendency to turn me off.  If one or two are going to run the association, why have a Board.  If we take out the power of one and give power to all, you will have a powerful organization.

12.    When you promote black belts through the ranks do you promote on ability, time in grade, or both?  In other words, if I was in your dojo every night, would it take me the same length of time to become; say a Ni Dan, as the guy who comes three nights a week, but has been there longer?

           We promote on the criteria that is set forth by Karate 5 and that is the process and objective for that rank.  Ability and time all play a part of a person’s ability to be promoted.  One’s ability could have exceeded the time but his ability did not meet the time; in another instance the time exceeds the ability but the ability does not meet the time.  So in the Karate 5 we look at each individual and we promote on merit as much as we can, knowing that the level of one could be minimum and the level of the other could be medium, and the level of another could be high.  The range of low to high gives us the opportunity to fit the student into the criteria where they could be promoted.  One student could do better in one area and have a high grade while another student could do better in another segment of training. 

           So just to say that we promote in one aspect and not another would not be true.  What we try to do is base it on every aspect of training, maturity, time, ability, individual goals and objectives.  We try to look at the whole picture.  This is why we have only promoted around 17 black belts in 35 years.  We have promoted some Karate 5 black belts but they were black belts before starting with us.  We look at what the program has to offer and what we expect from student training; we look at what we have set in the goals and what Karate 5 stands for in making these promotions available.

13.    What role have any associations, alliances, or anyone, had in the promotion of your students?

           None, except the IIKA recommendation of Grandmaster Msarsa as Dojo Sensei, in the promotion of Master Lee and myself.  We have had support from the Alliance and other systems in the promotion of Grandmaster Lee by our Board.  In essence, our Board has already approved Master Lee to be promoted.  We have asked for assistance only in support from certain members of the ICA Alliance and other organizations.  It gave us the confidence and accountability that we were doing the right thing. 

           I think that to some, our training and promotions from people in the ICA and other organizations – World Hall of Fame, International Karate Hall of Fame, prove our ability and our structure and completeness, our loyalty and commitment.  These types of promotions are just as great and acceptable as they would be in getting a rank promotion.  Organizations that say you have a good system, great competitors and great martial artists; that is a promotion that we look forward to as much as having a rank promotion.  Promotion of the heart is hard to beat.

14.  What would you want written about you on your martial arts?

         “My Grandmaster is Jesus Christ and His words are my techniques”.

INTERVIEW FOR MASTER WILSON
 

PART ONE:

Organizational and Professional

1.      Explain the Organizational structure of the Karate 5.

  The organizational structure of the Karate 5 is headed by five Sensei’s, a president (Grandmaster Wilson), a Vice President (Master Melbert Lee, Sr.), a secretary (Sensei Jon Whitehead), Training Coordinator and Web Master (Master William Mason), and one position which is currently vacant.  Grandmaster Maurice Msarsa serves the organization as Dojo Sensei.  Instructor Naomi Mason serves as ad hoc secretary for the Board.  A support group for the Board is made up of Instructors Melbert Lee, Jr., Anston Wilson, and Naomi Mason, all black belts. 

  Under this umbrella, the president is responsible for the overall training of Masters and Instructors.  The vice president and other Sensei’s are responsible for the training of lower kyu ranks.  As vice president, Master Lee has reporting to him the Instructors and Sensei Whitehead. The other Masters assist with the overall work load and report to the President. Master Lee also has other job duties that include responsibility for equipment, (ordering and inventory), maintenance and care of the building. This is why he is assigned additional personnel to assist in carrying out these responsibilities to meet the standards required by the Karate 5. Master Mason is our Training Coordinator, Web Master and Sensei of the Morristown Dojo.  He is assisted by Instructor Naomi Mason. 

  All events, guidelines or any changes must be approved by the Board.  We also encourage input from the support group of instructors.  Our group is a service based organization for the benefit of the community and the well-being of individual development.

  Karate 5 makes ample use of our constitution and bylaws, because that gives us a dependable way to deal with any situation that may arise. The constitution and bylaws help us govern our dojos as they contain the guidelines that enable us to make better decisions and achieve our objectives. They allow us to stay focused and eliminate rash decisions. The fact that we do use our constitution and bylaws as the basis for our decisions and the fact that the board always votes on each issue, keeps us on solid ground as we deal with each event or issue that occurs.

2.            How long has the organization been around and who were the original 5?

  In 1974 Grandmaster Harold Long asked Mr. Lee and me to go out into the community and help with inner city children to develop skills to keep them off the streets.  At first, the classes were held at the YWCA and a year later at the YMCA.  Because of the skill level of our students when we went to compete, we were asked where we trained.  When we told them we were at the “Y”, they would not take us seriously, so we decided to call it “Lee’s School of Karate”.  As we grew in the next five years, Mr. Lee decided that he did not feel that he was able to continue with the current status at that time.  At this time in 1980 the Karate 5 was created from the idea that five good people could make one great organization.  At this time I gave the name to Mr. Lee of “Karate 5”.  Since I was in college at that time, I asked that he be President and I would be the Coordinator.  Frederick Brabson was Assistant Coordinator; Linda Wilson served as Secretary, and William Faulkner as Treasurer.  Since then the offices have changed to president, vice president, secretary, treasurer, and training coordinator and web master.

3.      What do you attribute to its longevity and success as an organization and martial arts dojo at the same time?

  Our success has come from our ability to provide services to the community.  We have been able to see the need to help in the community, our churches and the local residential community with discipline, leadership, development and required skills. 

           The success of the Dojo has been due to the standard that we set when we were created from being a service organization and to be a helpful martial arts school.  We were based on development and not a monetary gain.  That way, we did not have to worry about the money.  We stress more development and training, thus making us more unique.  We did not worry about rank and did not have to be political pawns.  We had the ability to develop a unique and awesome program that is unsurpassed by the average martial arts school.

4.            What Leadership qualities do you consider a must for organizational leadership?

  Here are a few; being trustworthy, being consistent, fair and having good communication skills.  Many leaders say they are born and some say they are taught. I have found that in most cases, it is a person who has taken on the responsibility and accountability at that time to do things and get things done.  Most people think they have developed a certain amount of skills but it is the passion a person has to get things done.  If you are asking me to get real, I must say the most important quality is to be passionate about what you do.  Passion relates to all other leadership abilities. To get things done requires other abilities to acquire what your passion has laid out for you.

5.            Of these, which were you born with and which have you had to acquire?

  This is a hard question to answer since a lot of times we have the tendency to group the abilities from God into those with our everyday tasks.  To think about one that I would say I was born with would be my communication skills.  Everyone knows how much I love talking with people.  I have even been teased about it, but I love talking.  Sometimes I talk too much to some and not enough to others.  To one my talking is a blessing but to another it could be an irritation, but I am always true to everyone.  So if you do not know what I am talking about, take this as a learning experience.  If you do know, take it as a conversation. 

  The other is the job of wanting to complete a task and get it right.  I must say that I was probably born with the spirit of getting it right.  The passion that I spoke of is something I had to acquire because of the need to get something done.  These two passions and wanting to get it right are my strengths.

6.      What does the future hold for the Karate 5?

           The future of the Karate 5 is unlimited.  What I have found is that our humanity limits what has given us our uniqueness, i.e. our work schedule, our health.  However, beyond that the future of Karate 5 is very bright and at a stage that we will work to train and develop others.  We will continue this journey and provide for the community leadership and development of young martial artists that will help in the social life of the community. 

           In being real, the Karate 5 is only limited by our economic structure because we are more of a service organization than a “for profit organization.” 

           The real part that I see is now after all these years of training; there is a need to have a real foundation based on the concept of “getting home at night”.  Not that a true martial arts training school, that focuses on sports, could not also develop in the true meaning of martial arts.  The future for the Karate 5 is so demanding that again, I would say it would be based on the ability of our people that we would eventually let lead the organization.

7.            How did adopting other disciplines such as Jujitsu and Arnis help or hurt the Karate 5?

           The only hurt is that other people in Isshinryu did not understand their own system or history.  The system of Isshinryu can stand on its own.  The system of Jujitsu can stand on its own.  The system of Arnis can stand on its own also. 

           The weakness comes from individuals who do not develop an understanding of their own system. The interweaving of the entire arts crossover from time to time.  The first masters in Isshinryu studied others but knew their own systems.  Masters Denny Shaffer, Clyde Stanley, Butch Hill, James Ogle, Chris Spruiell, Joe Laney and Maurice Msarsa who are known for teaching Dim Mak, developed their systems with more than just a few techniques, unlike most masters that I have encountered.  I have found that the Isshinryu system and most systems are sports centered.  They build their legacy on trophies with favoritism from others in the ring, and judges from the same school, but their true art is based on a few techniques that bring home a few trophies.  So how can they help but let it be known how little their system has to offer.

           My first encounter with Jujitsu was from an invitation from Master Mason to meet Moses Powell who later introduced me to Master Vee.  In meeting and studying what Jujitsu had to offer and how I could interweave these skills with my other skills, including Isshinryu, I developed these arts into our system. 

           Once you know your system, Isshinryu, and add the same strengths of another to your system (Jujitsu and Arnis), you are able to close-in and finish your techniques.  I take the weak and make it strong.  Try these together and they come together – cross training.

8.            What has been your biggest organizational disappointment, or has there been one?

Politics!  Politics!  Politics!  I know that when you achieve a certain rank or position that comes with the territory. Is it polite when politics are used for one person’s bad management and damages the true art that we are trying to perfect?

  One incident that really affected our organization was when Grandmaster Msarsa, a member of the IIKA Board, nominated me to receive my 9^th degree ranking and it was supported by others like Master Denny Shaffer, another member of the Board.  I did not get the promotion but was told that I was qualified; and met the board requirement of age, skills, and time.  I was also told that I was from another generation; they did not need another 9^th degree on the Board, and would not fit in.  Meeting all the requirements only meant that they were not ready for a black man to be included with the other older board members. I was already on the IIKA Board as was my Sensei, Grandmaster Msarsa. Not only was this a real disappointment to our organization and supporters but other martial artists across the country that knows us. 

  At the same time Karate 5 Board and other martial artists from Jujitsu, Arnis, and Isshinryu voted to promote me in Mixed Martial Arts.  The same ones that denied my 9^th degree in Isshinryu honored and supported my 9^th degree in Mixed Martial Arts and said that I deserved it.  We felt that my 9^th degree was denied on the basis of my ethnicity.

  I have been in the organization of IIKA and enjoy some of the people and respect some, but at the same time this organization could be stronger since it has more longevity than most organizations around.  However, due to the political nature I see it can’t gain strength.  I notice they are now beginning to teach and act like they have discovered the fountain of youth, like they have just now discovered teaching. 

            I have found another organization (ICA) venturing into the arena with similar likeness because of their recognized commitment to their students that no other organization has rendered.  They seem to be giving students what they need, training, not politics.

9.            What has been your most pleasant surprise that came along at the right time?  Was it a defining moment for Karate 5?

            One was when Karate 5 was recognized as pioneers of cross training and our skills and abilities were recognized as high standard and producing good martial artists.  That we had paid the price and will be known for students martial artists developed through our training with some of the best martial artists in the country.   When we were recognized and recruited by Masters Shaffer and Msarsa, they put us in for board positions and recognized us for the Hall of Fame.  That was the turning point for our organization for all the years we had been ignored and black-balled for trying other types of training.  When this did come, I, and some others were ready; some were not.  Some see that this was a mistake and they were not stepping up their training.

10.    What social obstacles, if any, have the Karate 5 had to overcome to stay together?

            We have always been one of the most diverse schools.  We have never looked within ourselves about color or social status.  The outside looking in has been more demeaning to us.  We are trying to help with skills, abilities, and leadership.  We help financially and with fellowship and with overcoming everyday fears of society.  What has hurt is that someone would not want to train with us over the years.  They would ask, are you going to train with the blacks.  They did not look to see that we were more diverse and that we had more skills than most.  We had some people that would not shake hands with us.  At first it hurt because I was trying to see what they were seeing.  When I realized that it was ignorance, it freed me from being small minded and blaming others. 

            Our blessings come from us knowing who we are, a child of God, and have the same opportunities as anybody else.