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ARTICLES AND COMMENTARY
INTERVIEW OF GRANDMASTER WILLIE WILSON PART 3 PERSONAL INSIGHTS INTO YOUR LIFE EXPERIENCES Interviews Part 1 and Part 2 is below current interview
Master Wilson: this is the last of the three part interviews. The first two have been revealing and educational. I am sure this will be a continuation of your candor and wisdom.
1) You and wife Linda are what I refer to as a, “power couple” in the martial arts. My observation is that for every successful martial artist, there is a spouse supporting that success and contributing to it. That said, how has Linda helped you and has she ever felt like you were spending too much time on the martial arts? When people love and have passion for what they enjoy, seldom are they observers of them self. Linda and I have never thought of ourselves as being a power couple. We have expressed our marriage as a working marriage and it’s like a job or like perfecting the martial arts. So let me start by saying that in researching ,inquiring and talking with other martial arts friends, I have noticed and observed every good martial artist with passion for the art and the sacrifice that it takes to perfect its survival, most of them had difficulties with their spouse. It seems when one or the other has passion for what one is doing and what it takes time to perfect the other seems not to understand the sacrifice it takes. Early in our marriage Linda was a martial artist and achieved the rank of a second degree black belt with the Karate 5. She was a board member and also the first black woman that received her black belt in Isshinryu in East Tennessee. Although she enjoyed martial arts, she responded to me one time that I loved martial arts more than I loved her. Linda knew where I was at all times, what I was doing; who I was helping and she knew this was bigger than both of us. The sacrifice that I was making was helping to better discipline myself, being better organized and at the same time helping my students. As time went on, the discipline let me see what the Lord wanted and how to use me in the martial arts to expand my relationship with Him. Since then Linda has been more responsive to what it takes to help the organization as a spouse and as an ex board member, she continues to support it at all times, although she is sometimes overwhelmed. This has given me the inspiration from inside of my home because she has not stopped giving me the support that I need. The continuous encouragement includes traveling and attending events and she knows it is to help and encourage others. This type of attitude let’s you know what contributes support that makes one successful.
2) You have a son who is a good martial artist in his own right and a member of your dojo. How, or do you stay objective regarding his participation in your dojo, tournaments, etc? From the very beginning, my son Anston, started the martial arts when he was seven years old and I was honored that my son was going to train under me and my legacy was going to be carried on. When I bought him his first gi, it was too long and he took the scissors and cut the pants off. I told him he was going to wear it and he decided to quit and it lasted for two years. He finally came to me and asked to start training again and I told him no for two weeks or more but he would continue to ask and I would continue to say no. After a while, I told him he knew where my truck was and I would be leaving between 5:30 p.m. and 6:00 p.m. and would not look for him or even care if he was going. He was in the truck from 30 to 40 minutes before I was scheduled to leave. I set a standard from the beginning on what the seriousness of the martial arts meant to me and what I required from him being my son. In the dojo, a lot of people did not know he was my son because I was harder on him than the rest. I explained to him the students expected him to be better because having accessibility to me at all times contributed to him being a better martial artist. I feel that he should be better because he knew what I expected. Training in the early years was very demanding. There was a lot of expertise that had to be gained by perfecting the training. Anston and Junior Lee stood the test knowing what was expected from both of them. Anston has grown in the martial arts world as a disciplined martial artist with a future in the Karate 5. If he continues to keep an open mind and trains with the masters and learns to perfect the system of the Karate 5, we will continue to have a high standard; Anston believes in these standards. This is another reason which helped him become the martial artist that he is. He is surrounded by some of the best martial artists on our board and friends I have, thus enabling him to see what the standards of a good martial artist can become. In Anston’s reentry to tournaments at the Karate 5 in years back, I had retrained some of his approach to tournaments. Anston was a dojo street fighter; he understands what a real fight is. I had to make him understand the opponents in sports fighting are your friends, not your enemy. They are the extended family in martial arts. So with that understanding, Anston has become an excellent competitor and instructor, but I did not want him to lose the edge that he had from the real concept of getting home at night. I only have three literal instructors in the dojo; Anston, Melbert Lee, Jr., and Naomi Mason. These three make up the core of the instructors who help set the standards with the Sensei’s of Karate 5.
3) This question is for son; Anston. How has having someone of your fathers statue and accomplishments feel to you when trying to maintain your own identity? Well the name says it all. It’s one step of being a household name. Growing up being his son was hard as hell. He is very demanding, but loving at the same time. He is by far someone I don’t mind looking up to. He’s done a lot in his life and as time goes on he’s getting older and so am I. He’s made me the man I am today and I’ve made some bad choices in my life, but he already told me the right things to do. I chose not to listen. My dad was there to pick me up every time. Following in his footsteps is a challenge I don’t think two men can do. To be frank with you, a lot of people say you’re Willie’s son right. It doesn’t bother one bit to follow the greatest martial artist I know. My dad drives me to be a great fighter and I feel like I could take on an army with him by my side and when the time comes when he’s not, I have all the memories in my heart and soul. He has raised me to be a leader not a follower, and I will pass this on to my children then you will be asking this same question.
4) This question is for wife; Linda. What aspects of Willie’s life are you most proud of and what is his strongest attribute? These are very good questions to ask about a person you’ve been with for 38 years. The most important aspects of his life that I am most proud of are all of them, but the very most important one is him giving his life to our Lord Jesus Christ who makes all things possible and if it were not for Christ, He (Willie) would not have been able to accomplish anything and he knows that. As my husband, I am proud of his drive to succeed with a positive attitude and not let stumbling blocks stand in his way. When he was injured on his job, he didn’t settle for sitting around; he went to school and graduated from UT with honors. While being employed with the Post Office, he became Post Master in Blaine, TN. It may not seem like a big deal to some of you, but a black man having that type of position was unheard of especially when there was only one other and he made number two. Now that’s saying a lot about the establishment. I am proud of his rank as 9th Dan in Mixed Martial Arts. This is something that was not given to him but duly earned. There were BIG stumbling blocks on this course of his life, but he persevered through the racism and bigotry of those not wanting a black man to have such a high rank as 9th Dan in the Isshinryu Art; and he still did not receive it through the IIKA. He has moved forward and the others are waiting on the next Presidential election. I could go on about how proud I am of him but it would take up too much space, but I will tell you about his strongest attribute which is his integrity. Having that covers a multitude of characteristics. Integrity does not come over night, but comes with years of living a life that is truly upstanding and serving the community where you are visible to the public and personal eye. You can count on his word; if he says he’s going to do something the only way it will not get done will be because of an act of GOD, sudden sickness, or an emergency. Some people make a good showing outside the home life but his word is the same in our home; no different. He cares about people and is always thinking of some way to promote, uplift or help someone. If he’s your friend, he’s your friend and you can count on him. He’s my best friend. When this life is over for any of us the head stone has a date of birth and a date of death and in between those dates is a dash. That dash is our life, what we did with it while we were here on earth and I know what the dash is in my husband’s life because I have seen it lived for 38 years. How is your dash going to be lived?
5) Master Wilson, you and Master Melbert Lee are virtual icons now in the martial arts. How have two people with such strong personalities, stayed together and continued to be loyal and supportive without letting jealousy, and the usual partnership traps divide you? Master Lee and I, from the very beginning, understood what was required of us. I sat down with Melbert in our early years and explained to him how we understood each others assets in training together. My asset was being able to use kicks and techniques and my organizational skills due my education and the Army. Mel had the ability to use his hands because of his disability and had a gift of fellowship and communication in the martial arts arena; especially tournaments. We have common goals, personal friends, and our commitment as friends has eliminated any jealousy between us. In the early years, I was more of a dojo fighter because of my work schedule and college, so Melbert was better known in the tournament circuit than I was. I explained to Melbert that one day family and friends would ask which one of us is “the badest”. If you (Melbert) let this become something that must be proven to yourself or someone else, we will be fighting and one of us, or both of us, will be destroyed as well as our future, loyalty, and most of all, the common objective that we have for the community and martial arts world. We understood and told everyone you will never know which one of us is the “badest”, because fighting between us would never prove anything and just was not going to happen. In the later years, Melbert came to me laughing and said to me, my family, even my wife, asked me who of you is the “badest”? He remembered what I said and he told them “you will never know”. I told him that my family had asked me and I gave the same answer. The power of us being together with the leadership of other icons on our board, including masters like Brabson, Mason, Faulkner, you have to have the type of approach to the concept of being a leader of leaders. Without having this concept that we have strong abilities, as well as weaknesses, we would be challenging each other for the leadership to lead the other icons. I once was in conversation with a leader and he said this was a problem when you lead other people that are leaders. Only a few can lead leaders of leaders. With these kinds of icons in our organization of friends, you have to be a special or unique leader to be a leader of leaders.
6) Most people associate your dojo as an “African American” dojo. When in fact, it may have more white people than African Americans. How have you achieved such racial balance in your dojo? From the beginning, Master Lee as well as Master Mason, who at that time was in charge of a dojo in Morristown, shared in early years the demands in martial arts. Martial art is pure in nature and it is the teachers who inject prejudices of who they want to teach or train. Men and women have contributed the true nature of the martial arts and tried not to deem it good for this one or do not let this one have it because of race. We look at each individual beyond the color of the skin to help develop them for their personal objectives. Realizing how people judge us for being African American or Black we understood that being judged by appearance, hearsay, etc., was totally disregarding the individual. We understood and refused to enter in this contaminated and prejudice environment, thus in letting people be diversified gave us the best approach in everyone being able to help each other. This gives a real picture of what works better in life today. We knew that if we could play a part in showing what martial arts is about in its pure original form, we could make a system to enrich our society and community. We would work and train together to help individuals develop so they would be better for their family, community, and be a great representative of the martial arts world. This diversified approach in Karate 5 has been important in our success because it has people wanting to know and learn martial arts; they do not care who, they just want to know what their sensei knows. It has given us great pleasure to extend ourselves in every section of the community. We have Hispanics, women, men, white and black students as well as some with different disabilities. Prejudices come in every form and we have been able to see what society has afflicted upon the minority and we have overcome by the strength of our purpose. We put into action what we believe that all people are created equal.
7) In our geographic region, with very few exceptions; you, Joe Laney, and I, have the only African Americans in their dojo, at tournaments, and seminars. Why do you suppose it is like that? Personally knowing you and Joe, I feel that you and Joe have also seen that the karate/martial arts world is a pure nature like the organizational founders. It was meant to enhance the spiritual, mental and physical aspect of a person. This developmental process does not suppose to have any prejudicial type of judgment. Notice that you not only have a diversified school, you also have some of the superior students, letting me know that you have put in the time it takes to be a good martial artist to benefit society. Some dojo's like to have tokens just to be able to say I have (one), but yet they hide their true art or teach those they can relate to from a social stand point. These students seem to know less than their white or Asian counterparts. When you see an individual as a person, you work to help them to be the best they can be, you will have the racial balance because people can feel or relate to you when you have trueness about yourself. Concerns for every person’s transition to a better way of life is so rewarding when you understand and do what is right, stand up, it doesn’t matter; is it for race or any type of societal injustice, you will do what you stand for. You and Joe represent what real martial arts schools should be like, pure in heart. I would even say in the early years Master Mason had 80% white and Knoxville had 80% black and 20% white. Times have changed and we have in both locations a balance among all of our students. I am sure that this reflection has also helped others look at their needs that will go beyond you and Joe. This may be a trend that will be a benefit to all martial artists. We should see a person as a person so they can be the best person for our society for this time. Since the question has come to everyone’s attention about being diversified, I would like for other martial arts schools to look at themselves for what diversified programs they can enhance at their school. There will be many excuses.
8) In the earlier part of your interview, you said that you felt that the IIKA turned you down for rank, based on your color. I’m going to give you another chance to speak to that and ask if you truly feel that way. First of all, I think I covered this well in the other part of my interview when you asked what was the most disappointing thing Karate 5 had encountered. I felt at the time with all the qualifications being met but still was told by the Board that I would not be promoted because this was not the right time. There were other indicators we drew from including the pressure that was put on the IIKA through you and now hearing Master Msarsa getting me on the Board. They claimed they did not have another position available on the board at that time and Denny withdrew from the board to make a position for me. When I was finally on the Board and I was getting Melbert Lee nominated for a seat, they were trying to table it. If it had not been for the procedure that it was on the floor, and had to be decided on at that time, I think it would have been rescinded. Lee was added to the Board but we had some saying we were from the same dojo; this did not hold water because there were other representatives from the same dojos on the Board. After the failed vote of my promotion a high ranking board member looked me in my eyes at the meeting, and told Master Burris that I should have received my rank and was more than qualified and it was a disgrace and disrespectful. From that they changed the way they were going to consider promotion for higher rank to the executive board. The Karate 5 and others felt since I was already a 9th degree they were trying to make amends for such a blatant act. Facts speak for themselves, I had the time, abilities, support of many other masters, advanced Isshinryu in seminars up and down the east coast and as far away as Texas, and contributed to the growth of Isshinryu by opening a dojo in Morristown, TN. If this does not speak for itself, then what does?
9) When you look around, how do you judge the racial equality on boards, in dojos, and in high profile leadership roles? I look around and I do not see black or other representatives of diversity in these major roles. Is it a real fact that no one is qualified in that area? I have found they do not work to have this type of race equality. The Board and the dojo members think people are uncomfortable with people they do not understand so they do not know what to believe. I remember a person that was a sand blaster and he was doing some work for me; I remember how he stared at my whole body and hung on my every word. He finally told me how disappointed he was with his family and community after meeting me that he had missed out on the opportunity to be around people of color because he had been raised and fed poison or stereotyping different individuals. He said that now his eyes and heart were open. I think the time has come and gone to show in America our diversity that one nation under God will be the best strength that we will need. When holding an individual back because of your fears creates a bigger problem than if you had been able to help make it a better opportunity. When everyone is given an opportunity to be successful, then there is no justification for racial inequality. I walked my talk and am a stand up man and most people respect that.
10) We’ve talked a lot about race and obviously there are reasons to do it. The most apparent one is, you are a black man, and this is a personal interview and need to speak to that. How have you, your Karate 5 colleagues, and family, mixed in so well with the overwhelmingly white Isshinryu population and so obviously kept your own identity in tact? When you know who you are and what you stand for and the passion you have in what you do, it is not easy to get mixed up. When the system you are trying to perceive is objective, it has people who believe like us to overcome these ignorant acts to hold one back. With the help of other whites that believe in equal opportunity, it helps me with my identity to stay in tack. Know the reason you are doing something and it should not be based only on color or ethnic group. When you concentrate on what the art system is about and what it means to you and what it has to offer to the community in society it helps you overlook the shortcomings of the majority. We have looked at ourselves knowing we are saved and being a Christian by the sacrifice of a Jew named Jesus Christ. With that we are not looking at Isshinryu being overwhelmed. While we know we must operate from different standpoints we just work to grow so an individual will progress no matter the color. I know that there would be more blacks in karate if it was not for the economic structure. In most cases $150 a month for training eliminates a lot of people especially some of the areas that have more poverty. This creates an overwhelming number for more whites being able to afford training. Karate 5 under these set of circumstances say you have to know who you are. As a Black man I am so proud to be Black. I have never wanted to be any other race or person. I don’t believe God makes mistakes so for me to want to be something different would indicate He does. God has given us all opportunity; it is what we do with it that makes a difference.
11) Looking back on your career as a martial artist, are there any “do overs” you would like to have back? No! I think in my career of the best of me and the worst of me; the strengths of me and the weakness of me have all been for a reason. Dwelling on what you could have done different in a person’s life is time wasted. I think by doing make-overs when you have made the best decision at the time would be a waste of time to dwell on something that you could have done better. I think we should learn from what we know, learn from what we did and know how to work from diversity to make our lives productive and relevant to the world. We are not perfect, but we can work at being perfected and with our leadership know that we do make mistakes. I think a person that is perfect is boring, not that I know anyone who is perfect. I think a person who understands that he wants the best for himself, understands when mistakes are made you work through them. The mistake was part of the success.
12) Maurice Msarsa, who has been your friend and advisor for years made an interesting statement. He said that you will never get the credit you deserve for some of the ideas, concepts, and innovations you have created. Speak to that as honestly as you can and totally without false modesty. Is he right? How, and why? Sometimes when a person is consulted for his individual concept and innovation of doing things better tries to be objective. You try to be objective to them and don’t move too fast so you protect them. I have had many ideas stolen or borrowed. I say stolen but if you borrow it and give credit to the individual who you borrowed from, it is not stolen. I’ve seen many ideas stolen right in front of me when I knew I came up with the concept and/or way to do it better. Some of my concepts were working masters, finishing your opponents and getting home at night. I think the working master was one of my best concepts because I wanted the masters to work and continue to evolve karate to a higher level like we are doing. When one lives completely in the past, the present and future is lost. The innovation of the Karate 5 cross training has been used in the past to punish us from calling us traitors and not true Isshinryu practitioners. We knew we were only trying to be better martial artist and loved Isshinryu as our main art. Now in later years others are training and doing the cross training we once were punished for. I do not think we will completely get credit for being and seeing what was needed in this area in the martial arts world. I do know there were others after me like Butch Hill and James Ogle and few more, but to get the full acknowledgement of being the innovator of cross training, we have thought that we would be used as traitors more than innovators. Master Msarsa encourages martial artists to get better acquainted with each other. This is to get them to deal with each other and help Isshinryu grow and be involved in training that masters like you can create and make things happen. Maurice was right because after 30 years there has been no one to step up to give Karate 5 the credit it is due. Until your website started writing and speaking on behalf of all martial artists, martial artist like me and more were mentioned but not so much because this would be too much credit given to one that was not their own.
13) Last but not least; are you willing to admit that there is not going to be another Willie Wilson with the personal charisma and teaching knowledge, to lead the Karate 5 after you are gone? How will you prepare your successor to lead in his, or her, own style, while keeping the standards and values you have maintained all these years? This is something that the Karate 5 has been looking at over the past five years. We are very interested in the survival of Karate 5, but it might not be the way the present board with Master Lee and Master Mason, Sensei Whitehead and my instructors would do it. I have seen in most cases the successor of most organizations, even if it includes the successor of a system, do not have the passion or objective the originator had. I look at Master Long and how much he did for Isshinryu, and compare his successor. I see a difference. Most of the successors do not have the passion or the drive to move the system to the level above what they received. Most of them I see have decreased. I have noticed it even in the Modern Arnis. Grand Master Presas was an awesome martial artist of the system he created and now I see his successor that has done some things for his system but no where the level of the originator. To get back to me, I realize my passion and my objectives for the Karate 5 and the people have been able to assemble to run it are going to be hard to surpass. When you know it is for the individual you are training to mature to take over, a lot of pressure is created. This makes the concept for survival of the Karate 5 and will create an individual that will be better than the Willie Wilson and the board that I have created. What I am praying for most is passion. When a person has passion, it can overcome some of the disabilities that a person may have. A passionate heart is hard to beat. . I have been preparing for this as well as I can. At some point I will hand off the ball. Will my successor gain yardage, fumble the ball or score a touchdown? Only time will tell. To be where we have a legacy that cannot be surpassed or if it is surpassed, your name is in the middle. As long as your name is in the middle you still have a say in how things are going. Master Shaffer, I leave this with you. Where are you in this situation?
NOTE OF THANKS: I would like to thank Master Shaffer for such a thorough and demanding interview. I hope the readers get the intent of what we stand for in Karate 5 and what I stand for with my family. I believe I answered every question and gave the best summary that I could. I know I could have elaborated on each question almost like a chapter in a book, but due to the time of the reader and the concept of the website interview, I have given the best summary that I can at this time. I appreciate being asked to give what I could.
I want to thank Master William Mason, Instructor Naomi Mason and my wife, Linda, for making sure my statements and concepts represented us, the Karate 5 and our Christian walk with Christ.
INTERVIEW
FOR MASTER WILSON Teaching Methodology and Philosophy INTERVIEW PART 1 IS BELOW THIS CURRENT INTERVIEW
Master Wilson, this is the second of your three part interview. The questions today will deal with your opinions of teaching methods and your general training philosophy.
1. With the three main disciplines you teach; Isshin-Ryu, Jujitsu, and Military Arnis, do you emphasize one over the other? As in the previous interview, I noted that each one – Isshin-Ryu, Jujitsu and Arnis can stand on its own. When you know the system of Isshin-Ryu and any other martial art system, it is easy to interweave one with the other. Each system has weaknesses and strengths. What I have recognized in training and working these three systems with the Karate 5 is that one does not have an advantage over the other. When we find a weakness in one, we have found a correlation in the strength of another. Most martial artist pick out the strength of the system and that strength is what the person is about. When the person’s ability is power and quickness, then their strength is quickness and power. Some of the weakness comes from not exploiting the weakness in the system. This causes us to train at a level to bring out that training and meaning. I have noticed in our training that the system is not weak; it has evolved by using certain teachings in a different type of worldly techniques. Each system can stand on its own if you really know the art. I favor Isshinryu because it already has multi systems in it. The hard – Shorin Ryu, and the soft – Goju Ryu. It also has numerous Masters that taught Master Shimabuku. From these systems we teach what we like or can do the best. If we continue to search and reach out for what the system has to offer and go beyond our ability, the student should go on to be a better martial artist.
2. Under street conditions, which do you think would be the most useful? This is with a smile on my face as I think about what I should say. I know that you might be looking for a way to glorify one over the other, but since we have spent our whole career and embrace the weak and strong of the arts in the way of the Karate 5, I would not know if I would be using the Isshinryu punch and kick, or the Arnis block or strike, or the ability to reach and disable the opponent. I was once asked what was or to show, my best technique. My answer was that my best technique is the best opportunity that was given me. The concept of trying to be a complete martial artist from the stand point of Karate 5 has allowed us to have an open mind and reach our objective in being a complete martial artist. It would include knowing how to call 911; how to say I’m sorry; forgive me; to actually standing up to block and strike. We always believe at Karate 5 Dojo in the condition of the mind, spirit and body. The conditioning of these gives the student an advantage in his training. I know that some prefer one of the arts over the other from their personal standpoint. They might pick one that favors them. Karate 5 has trained and interwoven these for so long that opportunity is what you are looking for. To be truthful my system should be named “opportunity.”
3. How do you feel kata helps fighting and do you teach bunkai from the kata? Let me start by saying that in Karate 5 we have 5 levels of discipline with kata. 1. You learn the moves and sequence of the kata 2. You perfect the moves and sequence of the kata 3. You take the moves and sequence and identify the bunkai 4. You take the bunkai and apply it in a self-defense move that finishes a person which means anything from tying him up, throwing him, knocking him down or getting him to submit. The initial part starts with the bunkai for that move. Karate 5 incorporates this with any move from Jujitsu or Arnis to finish. 5. The level that is most difficult to master. At this level you use an original move from the kata and bunkai; then you go through the series of control or incapacitate the opponent. The secret of the 5th level is that you have to know the opponent is coming at you and you are creating your moves at the same time so when you finish your assailant, you return to the next move in the kata without getting out of sequence, step or position, and perform at such a level that it seems that you never left the kata. To show this level of expertise in bunkai and kata, you must know the original moves. Teaching alternate moves enhances the art. To teach only bunkai and stay at that level would be like taking a baby and putting a diaper on him and leaving them there until he is grown up. In this state, you can create and grow; it’s like taking a person from diapers and fully dressing him in full attire; from a suit, to shoes, to a scarf, to a cane, an umbrella, etc. In other words, many argue about the basics of a kata move and keep it at the level where there is no growth; no explanation beyond basic moves and leaves us to believe that kata has no validity beyond just being a bunch of moves. But when applied to instances that cause you to move from being in a diaper to full armor, kata is the element of your art.
4. During the week how much time do you spend teaching each discipline and to which segment of your students? Most of our students get equal amounts of the different segments of our system because of the nature of each area of Karate 5’s teaching method. When you teach a punch or block from the system, the emphasis turns that into a circle or windmill, both from Jujitsu or Arnis. We can emphasize pins from one or another of the disciplines. Other times we would do the self defense and we can complete moves that incapacitate; or introduce strikes, blocks and counters that move all the way to a sweep that teaches the student how to throw or fall. In doing this type of training, we carry over any sequence of training in one session that unifies all of our system and helps the training time in our dojo. Our training is not completely separated until it comes to using some of the applications in separate arenas. The sports segment carries a lot of weight and to apply some of it teaches the appropriate manner from the self defense. There is only a certain amount of teaching in the sports area that can be used when training in that type of segment. So you asked how much time we spent. Ours is like a rolling ball. We start out rolling in Isshin-Ryu, then it rolls into Jujitsu, then it rolls into Arnis; then it rolls into the final stage of Karate 5, a rolling ball of success. Once Karate 5 learns a new system, it is now a complete ball of success rolling on.
5. Have you changed your teaching methods through the years and if so, how? Yes, yes, and Yes!! In the early years martial arts was new and most people did not understand it. This came as an advantage and disadvantage. Our method of training was very disciplined and we had to prove the position that we had taken in the community. This was a very effective way and should be part of our society. We were scrutinized, looked upon; we were judged because of this being more of an Asian art in American society. We at Karate 5 felt that we had a strenuous leadership that meets physical and spirit. As the years have passed, the martial arts have become a household word and the dojo and money have become the motivating factor in some schools. Some have had to change to keep doors open. What the Karate 5 has done to keep motivated is by discipline of the spirit, and training for leadership, sports, fitness and tournaments. We still have a lot of emphasis on dojo fighting but have to back down because of rules in tournaments. The old way we use to fight was bare knuckle and bare foot. Now we find ourselves with sports equipment, less control, less target areas and less teaching. So if you asked if we have changed, yes. It is not that we wanted to; it is the pressure to be successful, to be needed, and have a place in society, and the opportunity to exist and not be labeled as a militant group. We have had to change some of our approaches to training without selling out the Karate 5. The evolution of what stands for your school centers around the type of student you attract. The caliber of students today is not, as a whole, the same caliber of student as yesterday. Today’s student has taken on the concept like fast food in America and can end up like the fast food of America; not being able to perform because of their attitude of wanting it quick, now, and yesterday.
6. You have a reputation as a tough but thorough teacher. Also you have some very tough students. Do you teach tough on purpose or is it just your nature? That’s a tough question and it deserves a tough answer but would I be doing it on purpose or would it be my nature? No. Let’s look at martial arts for what it was created for, the building of and balance of mind, spirit, and body. If you do not employ toughness, you have a disadvantage to start out with. That is the only way I have seen in our training to make people aware of the choice they have. Standing tall, and the attitude that comes from that, is a tough man approach. Some of mine comes from me being a black man knowing that sometimes I had only one opportunity to get it right. Not much room for errors.
7. What is your number one goal for your students? My number one goal for our students is to be complete martial artists. We have as head of our life Jesus Christ. We do not in any way force this on any of our students or leaders. In Karate 5, we ourselves are trying to show by example what Jesus Christ has done for us and is continuing to do for us, and how he helps us through trials and tribulations. The mental aspect of our students plays a good part of preparing our students to be able to think; to be able to put their surroundings and expectations together. We want our students to be thinkers, analytical; to be able to stand up and brainstorm. This gives a strong indication that you are building a leading mind instead of a following mind. The physicality to compensate for certain handicaps or to control, one can get in the martial arts. I know that in thinking of an answer to the question of the number one goal is that to be the best martial artist they can be but in doing that through those three elements help you see that the Karate 5 is looking for more than one segment at a time.
8. How much do you train on tournament point fighting and how important is it to your dojo? First of all, all of our training is very important. We try to implement all of our training to different segments of what is required in our daily work out. We have found that incorporating a certain amount of training at all times leaves us with less training to prepare for a special event. The Karate 5’s reputation of being good competitors, along with some of our sister/brother schools, that if we were to enter the ring with one leg and get beat, we could not make any excuses that we had only one leg. No one would care. If you get beat, you get beat, and we are trying to implement that if you step in the ring, you are to be prepared to do the best you can do. Some of us are taking into account work loads and jobs. No one cares how much time he puts in training for getting home at night. Karate 5 continues to train as much as time will allow on a continual basis on tournament fighting. I love dojo continuous fighting. It brings you as close to reality as you can without hurting someone. Point fighting sharpens skills, promotes fellowship and getting along type of environment. A skill that can be used in point fighting. That same skill can be used in getting home at night. If you can kick properly it can be used at every segment of training, as well as punching. It’s the standard of point fighting in the sports arena that I find to be detrimental to Karate 5. The students had so many trophies that wives were breaking them to get them out of the room. Students quit training because they had won so many trophies they thought they were good enough and trophies became their god. This alone has made point fighting the least of my training.
9. What is the worst thing a student can do to you as a Sensei? One of the worse things would be disrespect. A student that is disrespectful has an underlying motive. There is something wrong. He should see how you can learn from someone or teach someone. Giving this much knowledge and power in the martial arts to an individual without respect is like giving a child a loaded gun. The disrespect carries over into other areas of training and contaminates the core of what martial arts stands for; discipline, respect, fellowship, sharing of knowledge and forgiving ones shortcomings, not judging others. Those who had disrespect and turn it into respect for all other training segments of the dojo is a trickle down from sensei to instructor.
10. If you were a member of an association, what would you want that association to do to be of benefit to you and your dojo? First, to be part of an association, I think the association should be able to offer continual growth, leadership, development of the art and fellowship of one another. The association should be one of the strengths behind the system than can enhance students beyond the dojo. When the organization only offers dues and a title, that is making our system seem like they have been sold short. The association should provide such a benefit that the student is willing to pay dues because he knows he is going to receive more than a membership card. There should be training that enhances those able to grow and reflect on the association and help in continued development; their opportunity to train with other martial artists. An organization that fails to give members motivation is a failure to the system and a failure to themselves.
11. If you were head of an association other than the Karate Five, what would you insist on from the other board members? Each person has a certain amount of gifts that they bring. I expect each board member to bring that type of ability to the table. Without it they would be used as pawns for someone to tell them what to do. Board members in any organization are a mixture of brains. They all have to meet the needs of the board and interact with each other. Each member should be willing to brainstorm as well as put into action the decisions of the Board. Each board should not center around one individual. Each board member should have a voice that would be just as strong as the chair, president or vice president. The board should insist that each member contribute and have input in every aspect of the organization. I think that the support of members is vital to the survival of the organization. Once the board has agreed on a decision or issue, all members should support it and not try to tear it down. I think that when one or two members try to run things, it becomes like a dictatorship and has a tendency to turn me off. If one or two are going to run the association, why have a Board. If we take out the power of one and give power to all, you will have a powerful organization.
12. When you promote black belts through the ranks do you promote on ability, time in grade, or both? In other words, if I was in your dojo every night, would it take me the same length of time to become; say a Ni Dan, as the guy who comes three nights a week, but has been there longer? We promote on the criteria that is set forth by Karate 5 and that is the process and objective for that rank. Ability and time all play a part of a person’s ability to be promoted. One’s ability could have exceeded the time but his ability did not meet the time; in another instance the time exceeds the ability but the ability does not meet the time. So in the Karate 5 we look at each individual and we promote on merit as much as we can, knowing that the level of one could be minimum and the level of the other could be medium, and the level of another could be high. The range of low to high gives us the opportunity to fit the student into the criteria where they could be promoted. One student could do better in one area and have a high grade while another student could do better in another segment of training. So just to say that we promote in one aspect and not another would not be true. What we try to do is base it on every aspect of training, maturity, time, ability, individual goals and objectives. We try to look at the whole picture. This is why we have only promoted around 17 black belts in 35 years. We have promoted some Karate 5 black belts but they were black belts before starting with us. We look at what the program has to offer and what we expect from student training; we look at what we have set in the goals and what Karate 5 stands for in making these promotions available.
13. What role have any associations, alliances, or anyone, had in the promotion of your students? None, except the IIKA recommendation of Grandmaster Msarsa as Dojo Sensei, in the promotion of Master Lee and myself. We have had support from the Alliance and other systems in the promotion of Grandmaster Lee by our Board. In essence, our Board has already approved Master Lee to be promoted. We have asked for assistance only in support from certain members of the ICA Alliance and other organizations. It gave us the confidence and accountability that we were doing the right thing. I think that to some, our training and promotions from people in the ICA and other organizations – World Hall of Fame, International Karate Hall of Fame, prove our ability and our structure and completeness, our loyalty and commitment. These types of promotions are just as great and acceptable as they would be in getting a rank promotion. Organizations that say you have a good system, great competitors and great martial artists; that is a promotion that we look forward to as much as having a rank promotion. Promotion of the heart is hard to beat.
14. What would you want written about you on your martial arts? “My Grandmaster is Jesus Christ and His words are my techniques”.
INTERVIEW
FOR MASTER WILSON Organizational and Professional
1. Explain the Organizational structure of the Karate 5. The organizational structure of the Karate 5 is headed by five Sensei’s, a president (Grandmaster Wilson), a Vice President (Master Melbert Lee, Sr.), a secretary (Sensei Jon Whitehead), Training Coordinator and Web Master (Master William Mason), and one position which is currently vacant. Grandmaster Maurice Msarsa serves the organization as Dojo Sensei. Instructor Naomi Mason serves as ad hoc secretary for the Board. A support group for the Board is made up of Instructors Melbert Lee, Jr., Anston Wilson, and Naomi Mason, all black belts. Under this umbrella, the president is responsible for the overall training of Masters and Instructors. The vice president and other Sensei’s are responsible for the training of lower kyu ranks. As vice president, Master Lee has reporting to him the Instructors and Sensei Whitehead. The other Masters assist with the overall work load and report to the President. Master Lee also has other job duties that include responsibility for equipment, (ordering and inventory), maintenance and care of the building. This is why he is assigned additional personnel to assist in carrying out these responsibilities to meet the standards required by the Karate 5. Master Mason is our Training Coordinator, Web Master and Sensei of the Morristown Dojo. He is assisted by Instructor Naomi Mason. All events, guidelines or any changes must be approved by the Board. We also encourage input from the support group of instructors. Our group is a service based organization for the benefit of the community and the well-being of individual development. Karate 5 makes ample use of our constitution and bylaws, because that gives us a dependable way to deal with any situation that may arise. The constitution and bylaws help us govern our dojos as they contain the guidelines that enable us to make better decisions and achieve our objectives. They allow us to stay focused and eliminate rash decisions. The fact that we do use our constitution and bylaws as the basis for our decisions and the fact that the board always votes on each issue, keeps us on solid ground as we deal with each event or issue that occurs.
2. How long has the organization been around and who were the original 5? In 1974 Grandmaster Harold Long asked Mr. Lee and me to go out into the community and help with inner city children to develop skills to keep them off the streets. At first, the classes were held at the YWCA and a year later at the YMCA. Because of the skill level of our students when we went to compete, we were asked where we trained. When we told them we were at the “Y”, they would not take us seriously, so we decided to call it “Lee’s School of Karate”. As we grew in the next five years, Mr. Lee decided that he did not feel that he was able to continue with the current status at that time. At this time in 1980 the Karate 5 was created from the idea that five good people could make one great organization. At this time I gave the name to Mr. Lee of “Karate 5”. Since I was in college at that time, I asked that he be President and I would be the Coordinator. Frederick Brabson was Assistant Coordinator; Linda Wilson served as Secretary, and William Faulkner as Treasurer. Since then the offices have changed to president, vice president, secretary, treasurer, and training coordinator and web master.
3. What do you attribute to its longevity and success as an organization and martial arts dojo at the same time? Our success has come from our ability to provide services to the community. We have been able to see the need to help in the community, our churches and the local residential community with discipline, leadership, development and required skills. The success of the Dojo has been due to the standard that we set when we were created from being a service organization and to be a helpful martial arts school. We were based on development and not a monetary gain. That way, we did not have to worry about the money. We stress more development and training, thus making us more unique. We did not worry about rank and did not have to be political pawns. We had the ability to develop a unique and awesome program that is unsurpassed by the average martial arts school.
4. What Leadership qualities do you consider a must for organizational leadership? Here are a few; being trustworthy, being consistent, fair and having good communication skills. Many leaders say they are born and some say they are taught. I have found that in most cases, it is a person who has taken on the responsibility and accountability at that time to do things and get things done. Most people think they have developed a certain amount of skills but it is the passion a person has to get things done. If you are asking me to get real, I must say the most important quality is to be passionate about what you do. Passion relates to all other leadership abilities. To get things done requires other abilities to acquire what your passion has laid out for you.
5. Of these, which were you born with and which have you had to acquire? This is a hard question to answer since a lot of times we have the tendency to group the abilities from God into those with our everyday tasks. To think about one that I would say I was born with would be my communication skills. Everyone knows how much I love talking with people. I have even been teased about it, but I love talking. Sometimes I talk too much to some and not enough to others. To one my talking is a blessing but to another it could be an irritation, but I am always true to everyone. So if you do not know what I am talking about, take this as a learning experience. If you do know, take it as a conversation. The other is the job of wanting to complete a task and get it right. I must say that I was probably born with the spirit of getting it right. The passion that I spoke of is something I had to acquire because of the need to get something done. These two passions and wanting to get it right are my strengths.
6. What does the future hold for the Karate 5? The future of the Karate 5 is unlimited. What I have found is that our humanity limits what has given us our uniqueness, i.e. our work schedule, our health. However, beyond that the future of Karate 5 is very bright and at a stage that we will work to train and develop others. We will continue this journey and provide for the community leadership and development of young martial artists that will help in the social life of the community. In being real, the Karate 5 is only limited by our economic structure because we are more of a service organization than a “for profit organization.” The real part that I see is now after all these years of training; there is a need to have a real foundation based on the concept of “getting home at night”. Not that a true martial arts training school, that focuses on sports, could not also develop in the true meaning of martial arts. The future for the Karate 5 is so demanding that again, I would say it would be based on the ability of our people that we would eventually let lead the organization.
7. How did adopting other disciplines such as Jujitsu and Arnis help or hurt the Karate 5? The only hurt is that other people in Isshinryu did not understand their own system or history. The system of Isshinryu can stand on its own. The system of Jujitsu can stand on its own. The system of Arnis can stand on its own also. The weakness comes from individuals who do not develop an understanding of their own system. The interweaving of the entire arts crossover from time to time. The first masters in Isshinryu studied others but knew their own systems. Masters Denny Shaffer, Clyde Stanley, Butch Hill, James Ogle, Chris Spruiell, Joe Laney and Maurice Msarsa who are known for teaching Dim Mak, developed their systems with more than just a few techniques, unlike most masters that I have encountered. I have found that the Isshinryu system and most systems are sports centered. They build their legacy on trophies with favoritism from others in the ring, and judges from the same school, but their true art is based on a few techniques that bring home a few trophies. So how can they help but let it be known how little their system has to offer. My first encounter with Jujitsu was from an invitation from Master Mason to meet Moses Powell who later introduced me to Master Vee. In meeting and studying what Jujitsu had to offer and how I could interweave these skills with my other skills, including Isshinryu, I developed these arts into our system. Once you know your system, Isshinryu, and add the same strengths of another to your system (Jujitsu and Arnis), you are able to close-in and finish your techniques. I take the weak and make it strong. Try these together and they come together – cross training.
8. What has been your biggest organizational disappointment, or has there been one? Politics! Politics! Politics! I know that when you achieve a certain rank or position that comes with the territory. Is it polite when politics are used for one person’s bad management and damages the true art that we are trying to perfect? One incident that really affected our organization was when Grandmaster Msarsa, a member of the IIKA Board, nominated me to receive my 9th degree ranking and it was supported by others like Master Denny Shaffer, another member of the Board. I did not get the promotion but was told that I was qualified; and met the board requirement of age, skills, and time. I was also told that I was from another generation; they did not need another 9th degree on the Board, and would not fit in. Meeting all the requirements only meant that they were not ready for a black man to be included with the other older board members. I was already on the IIKA Board as was my Sensei, Grandmaster Msarsa. Not only was this a real disappointment to our organization and supporters but other martial artists across the country that knows us. At the same time Karate 5 Board and other martial artists from Jujitsu, Arnis, and Isshinryu voted to promote me in Mixed Martial Arts. The same ones that denied my 9th degree in Isshinryu honored and supported my 9th degree in Mixed Martial Arts and said that I deserved it. We felt that my 9th degree was denied on the basis of my ethnicity. I have been in the organization of IIKA and enjoy some of the people and respect some, but at the same time this organization could be stronger since it has more longevity than most organizations around. However, due to the political nature I see it can’t gain strength. I notice they are now beginning to teach and act like they have discovered the fountain of youth, like they have just now discovered teaching. I have found another organization (ICA) venturing into the arena with similar likeness because of their recognized commitment to their students that no other organization has rendered. They seem to be giving students what they need, training, not politics.
9. What has been your most pleasant surprise that came along at the right time? Was it a defining moment for Karate 5? One was when Karate 5 was recognized as pioneers of cross training and our skills and abilities were recognized as high standard and producing good martial artists. That we had paid the price and will be known for students martial artists developed through our training with some of the best martial artists in the country. When we were recognized and recruited by Masters Shaffer and Msarsa, they put us in for board positions and recognized us for the Hall of Fame. That was the turning point for our organization for all the years we had been ignored and black-balled for trying other types of training. When this did come, I, and some others were ready; some were not. Some see that this was a mistake and they were not stepping up their training.
10. What social obstacles, if any, have the Karate 5 had to overcome to stay together? We have always been one of the most diverse schools. We have never looked within ourselves about color or social status. The outside looking in has been more demeaning to us. We are trying to help with skills, abilities, and leadership. We help financially and with fellowship and with overcoming everyday fears of society. What has hurt is that someone would not want to train with us over the years. They would ask, are you going to train with the blacks. They did not look to see that we were more diverse and that we had more skills than most. We had some people that would not shake hands with us. At first it hurt because I was trying to see what they were seeing. When I realized that it was ignorance, it freed me from being small minded and blaming others. Our blessings come from us knowing who we are, a child of God, and have the same opportunities as anybody else.
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